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UniqueAmI
07-13-2013, 11:32 PM
I watched part of the trial and a lot of the commentary. With the exception of 3 or 4 black women commentators everyone expected Zimmerman to be found not guilty. A few thought they might get manslaughter. But, no one believed it was 2nd Degree murder.

So, now the Rev Al is screaming injustice and Melissa Perry is so upset she can barely talk. Yet, she admits the verdict was probably correct given the evidence.

The Rev Al is saying "What I can walk outside and a pedestrian can question me?", Joy-Ann Reid was practically crying when she said her son asked her "What do I do if a stranger is following me?" she said she had no answer. If the stranger is armed and he runs, the stranger might shoot him. If he fights and the stranger shoots him they'll get off on self-defense. What both of these commentators discounted was George Zimmerman was part of the Neighborhood Watch, he wasn't just a pedestrian following a kid. It was part of his job to watch out for suspicious characters. If a stranger corners you, scream "What do you want?" If it's a neighborhood watch person they'll probably tell you and not shoot you. If they say they want to fuck you, then fight for your life.

Don't get me wrong. Zimmerman was told by the dispatcher not to follow, and he did anyway. I'm sure the gun he had on him probably made him a lot braver than if he wasn't armed. But, that's not a crime. What happened the seconds before the fight ensued is what is one-sided right now. Trayvon's not alive to tell his side of the story. Supposedly there was no verbal exchange between Trayvon and Zimmerman. According to Zimmerman Trayvon attacked him. Zimmerman was losing. The one eye witness who had no stake in the outcome said he saw Zimmerman on the ground and Trayvon on top on him. Had Trayvon yelled at Zimmerman "What do you want?" he might still be alive today.

I guess my problem with this case is it's not about race, it's about profiling. What Trayvon was wearing is as important if not more important then his race.

Is profiling wrong? I don't think so. If you see a stranger in your neighborhood of any color, who is dressed like a punk, you're going to be suspicious. You should be suspicious. You should be suspicious of anyone that doesn't belong on your block. It doesn't mean you should harass them or follow them unless you're part of a neighborhood watch.

I'm an old white punk rocker. Back in 81 or 82 I was going to see the Clash in NYC and I was wearing my punk rock leather coat. On the shoulder flap I had a pair of police handcuffs that I used to use when I did magic. I'm minding my own business and a cop calls me over to his patrol car. I go over and he questions me on what I'm doing with a pair of handcuffs on my jacket. He has me remove them, and as I'm walking away he calls me a loser. I was PISSED. I wasn't doing anything but walking down the block and I get harassed by this asshole. What didn't dawn on me till years later was, that cop had no idea of who I was. He didn't know if I was going to use those handcuffs to bind some woman and rape her. If I was going to use it to commit a crime. If he would have done his job properly, he'd have confiscated the handcuffs. What saved my ass that night was my respectful nature toward the officer. If I was real punk, I'd have questioned him, and probably been arrested. I would have been wrong.

Everyone profiles everyone. Every person you come in contact with you profile. I meet just as many white people everyday that I think will rob or kill me as I do black people.

I was screaming at the TV tonight. I get that people are angry that ZImmerman was not held accountable. But, if he's not guility, then he has to be set free. The fact he's going to have to live in hiding for the rest of his life is his penalty. Why? Because all the people who didn't watch the trial, have decided that the jury got it wrong have profiled him. Just as he did Trayvon.

We're all fucked.

NHummel
07-14-2013, 12:15 AM
I honestly thought the trial could go either way. I am really not surprised with the result.

As far as profiling, I honestly think everyone does it. They may not do it on purpose, or even think about it, but they do it, and I am no exception, I try not to judge people based on anything whether is be color, style, how they present/carry themselves, but I honestly believe that everyone does it. Personally, I have met people who by looking at them, you may be suspicious, but they were some of the nicest people you'd ever meet, and vice versa, I have met people who looked very professional, straight edge person, who turned out to be into some bad stuff, and not good people. Profiling, whether we like it or not, is something that I am sure all of us do at some point, with or without meaning to.

eortiz98
07-14-2013, 02:04 AM
I personally honestly think he should have been found guilty of the murder. I been watching the whole trail and don't think he should have been let go at all. But that just my personally thought.

shawnrohrbach
07-14-2013, 08:29 AM
" What both of these commentators discounted was George Zimmerman was part of the Neighborhood Watch, he wasn't just a pedestrian following a kid. It was part of his job to watch out for suspicious characters. If a stranger corners you, scream "What do you want?" If it's a neighborhood watch person they'll probably tell you and not shoot you. If they say they want to fuck you, then fight for your life. "

Neighborhood watch training usually includes the following. 1) Stay in your car until the police arrive. 2) Do not follow the suspect on foot. 3) NEVER carry a gun. A neighborhood watch VOLUNTEER is not "on the job". If the community decides to hire a professional guard service, I can guarantee you they do not follow suspects on foot and do not carry guns unless they are sworn police officers doing off duty guard service. The only reason Zimmerman got off was the prosecutor was totally inept and may have had sympathies for Zimmerman himself. This was clearly manslaughter at the very least.

btflatt
07-14-2013, 08:52 AM
zimmerman is a killer and a liar. Lucky, there's a thing called karma.

BTW, Trayvon Martin was a 17-year-old child who belonged in the neighborhood. He was on his way to his father's home.

You say " Rev Al is screaming injustice."

Well, every honest human being should join him.

An all-white Southern-style jury let the killer zimmerman walk.

BTW, in 2013, is an "all white jury" in a Southern state expected to render justice for Trayvon Martin? Are you kidding?

When an African-American is accused of shooting a white person, do you think he will get an all black jury. If you say yes, you would be kidding.

Come on. Don't shout about Rev Al playing the "race card." Race was front and center in this trial. The defense claimed self-defense and frighten the "jury members" into believing that Trayvon Martin was something he wasn't, a neighborhood threat, because he was a black male.

zimmerman stalked Trayvon Martin. zimmerman thought that he, zimmerman, was a badass, who could take people down, sort of a Chuck Norris . He charged out of his car. Didn't say who he was, got in a fight with a seventeen year old child, was getting the worst of it. zimmerman claims that during the fight his life was at stake, and that his head was banged against the pavement. Funny, that liar's injuries were minor. But he did take a major hit to his pride. So he shot a 17-year old child dead.

BTW, if somebody got in a fight with Chuck Norris ... Well, don't you think that Chuck Norris wouldn't do what Trayvon Martin did? Trayvon Martin defended himself. zimmerman murdered him.

966
This is the crime scene photo of Trayvon Martin dead. Notice how young he is. Notice that he wasn't wearing the hoodie up over his head in a menacing manner.

967

JHar888
07-14-2013, 12:04 PM
George Zimmerman is innocent, and the ass-hurt people need to simply GET OVER IT.

If I'm patrolling a neighborhood and I see a suspicious looking young fella who has no business there, I have the right to observe his behavior, and the second he attacks me and breaks my nose, and begins to beat my head into the concrete, I, by law, am allowed to fire at him. There is no argument whatsoever.

This doesn't have to be a white vs. black thing, or a race issue of any kind, but black people have started to make this both a race thing and a black vs. white thing, which is stupid as hell, especially considering Zimmerman isn't even white.

#JusticeforZimmerman

JHar888
07-14-2013, 12:10 PM
UniqueAmI, I respect you as a poster, you're one of my favorite regulars around here, but I strongly disagree with the making of this thread.

It's OK to discuss current events here and there, but this one has already caused several heated arguments on many social networking sites already.

btflatt
07-14-2013, 01:40 PM
"If I'm patrolling a neighborhood and I see a suspicious looking young fella who has no business there, I have the right to observe his behavior, and the second he attacks me and breaks my nose, and begins to beat my head into the concrete, I, by law, am allowed to fire at him. There is no argument whatsoever."


Oh boy. Another person who drank the koolaid.

First. Trayvon Martin was visiting his father who lived in the neighborhood.

Second zimmerman's head wasn't bashed into the pavement. He had only minor injuries. He refused on at least two occasions to go to the hospital to have his injuries checked out. He was in a fight that he started with a 17-year-old child, and was losing until he shot a child.

Third. zimmerman told the police that he never identified himself to Trayvon Martin. To a 17-year old kid, zimmerman could have been a homo stalker.


Fourth, the investigators caught zimmerman in several lies. He claimed that he didn't know about the "stand your ground" law, which gave him a defense to shoot an unarmed child, when he had gone to school to learn the law. He claimed injuries, which the medical personnel said he showed no signs of having. The prosecutor said zimmerman lied and kept lying, about everything, including whether he have any assets to post bond.

Fifth, zimmerman attacked Trayvon Martin. He claims Trayvon Martin attacked him. He stalked. Followed the child. Jumped out of his car. Engaged him in a fight. Trayvon Martin defended himself.

Sixth, the people who made this a black/white issue was the Ku Klux Klan, who supported zimmerman, until it was revealed that zimmerman's mother is Hispanic.

Seventh, what kept it going as a black / white issue was the trial. An 'all-white' Southern jury, with the defense attorney playing on the fears of the white women whom composed the jury. The fears of the black male.

Race is an issue. zimmerman made it an issue in the statements that he gave to the police, claiming that African-Americans who didn't belong in his neighborhood were coming into the neighborhood acting suspicious. On the night he spotted Trayvon Martin, who was coming from the store, on his way back to his father's house, zimmerman reacted in a way that led to the murder of a child.

Let me repeat. Trayvon Martin belonged in the neighborhood. He was there visiting his father.

Aaron Jones
07-14-2013, 04:04 PM
but black people have started to make this both a race thing and a black vs. white thing, which is stupid as hell, especially considering Zimmerman isn't even white.

#JusticeforZimmerman

JHAR888 I'm a black person and I have not done that at all. The media was the the first perpetrator to imply that he was a white man as how they portrayed this case from the beginning. Then later they release more evidence. A matter of a fact I just as many white friends that feels that he is guilty as I do blacks. Here in Flint, MI there are more whites that are raising more sand than blacks. I just think that your comment is very labeling to say the least. this is something that affects a country not just a city. If you had a scars as to not being treated with equality in the past I wonder what you would think seeing that you think that it "is stupid as hell." There are many wounds from the past and many have not fully healed yet and it is a sensitive issue. Love for one another is the only thing that can cover our issues as people and human beings.

Also if you thought that this thread was not a good idea then why did you post?

Personally, as a black man I try with everything in me to love all and look at it as a human offense. I have not followed this case as close as others, but for the simple fact of George Zimmerman calling 911 and they advised him not to pursue this young man and he did anyway should raise many flags in anyone's mind. If you are working a a neighbor watch on behalf of a community there is accountability. as a result of him following this young man someone lost their life. It would be different if you saw him come out of someone's home with goods, or something in that nature. He saw a young man with a hoodie on and to him he was suspicious. As a result someone's baby is not coming home again. I don't wish any harm to George Zimmerman and my prayers go out to the young man's family. He was found dead with skittles. Stupidity played a big part in this tragic death. If he would have followed from a large distance to to make sure he left the neighborhood this would not have happened. George Zimmerman proved that he does not tell the truth and fear going to jail, so none of us will know exactly what transpired. We can guess all we want as to what happened but it is very tragic to say the least.

shawnrohrbach
07-14-2013, 04:15 PM
George Zimmerman is innocent, and the ass-hurt people need to simply GET OVER IT.

If I'm patrolling a neighborhood and I see a suspicious looking young fella who has no business there, I have the right to observe his behavior, and the second he attacks me and breaks my nose, and begins to beat my head into the concrete, I, by law, am allowed to fire at him. There is no argument whatsoever.

This doesn't have to be a white vs. black thing, or a race issue of any kind, but black people have started to make this both a race thing and a black vs. white thing, which is stupid as hell, especially considering Zimmerman isn't even white.

#JusticeforZimmerman

If you are going to be this hard, maybe you should think about not hiding your identity behind a moniker. Be courageous and tell us who you are.

JHar888
07-14-2013, 04:54 PM
Since when did I ever try to hide who I was?

JHar888
07-14-2013, 05:01 PM
Oh jeez, just read all the posts here and I didn't know we were so anti-Zimmerman.

Aaron Jones
07-14-2013, 05:03 PM
IT does not matter who we are for the most part... We are all human beings. What is important is that we learn to love one another with equality, period! None of us are perfect and we all have strengths and weaknesses. Although our strength and weaknesses are different one to another it should then speak to the fact that we are created to work together in harmony for a common goal. That is what is important. Some have a different outlook on things as oppose to another, but we using our ability of love can all move forward together.

Jimmy
07-14-2013, 05:09 PM
Based on Zimmermans history I do not believe he went to kill Mr. Martin. I think he is stupid for getting himself in the situation and he deserves to have his guns taken away for life and should spend some time in jail. He knew he had a gun and was wanting to be a wannabe police officer and for that the man is STUPID. Should he be sent to prison for life, no.

shawnrohrbach
07-14-2013, 06:04 PM
Since when did I ever try to hide who I was?

Ok, I don't get the joke. Who is JHar888. Maybe I am missing something there, maybe it's an inside name, like you are high and mighty in the industry, and "everyone in the know knows" who JHar88 is but I don't know who JHar888 is. A simple name would suffice.

Nick Soares
07-14-2013, 07:23 PM
Lets keep the personal attacks back and forth down guys. Something that shows maturity in these situations is restraint. Its an open forum so state your thoughts and reply accordingly.

Havey
07-14-2013, 08:08 PM
Keep it clean guys. There is a difference between debating and arguing. So lets keep it semi professional, I'll let a lot slide since this is the OT section, but lets not get personal.

UniqueAmI
07-14-2013, 09:25 PM
JHar888: Yeah, I did start something. Sorry.

But, as people who want to recreate life (movies), it's important to see, watch and learn from everything we can. I've always been a "news" hound. There are just times when I listen to these commentators and they just misstate the facts over and over. Last night it was a field day. Their misstatements enrage people. 99.9% of the time it's Fox instigating, last night it was MSNBC.

Anyway, I'm going to answer some of the comments on here, so RUN AWAY.

NHUMMEL: There's an old expression "Everyone only gets one chance to make a first impression". The new version is a PC term with a bad connotation PROFILING.

You can't see a person and not have an impression of them. It doesn't matter if it's good or bad, they just hit a certain way. Then hopefully you get to know them and find out if your impression is correct.

If Zimmerman had yelled "I'm neighborhood watch" or Trayvon had said "What the fuck do you want you pervert?" this tragedy could have been avoided. It's called talking.

EORTIZ98: Where was the proof? If you watched the trial, where was the proof? Every prosecution witness scored points for the defense. I don't know what news programs you watch. But, there was no one with the exception of the black female commentators who thought the prosecution had a case. Many (especially the Judges interviewed) felt charges were never warranted.

Give some points where you feel the jury got it wrong.

The best last night were the commentators who spoke about how the jury did a wonderful job, and how they went through the evidence and were thorough... NO ONE knows how the jury deliberated, no one even knows their name. No one has spoken to them, so no one should be commenting on anything that went on in the jury room.

SHAENROHRBACH: The key word you put is USUALLY. Point 1 is well taken. The dispatcher told him to stay in his car. HE DIDN'T. Point 2 is really just point one. Point 3 does not apply, because it is LEGAL in FL to carry a firearm (I DO NOT agree with this. I don't think ANYONE should own guns. Unfortunately it's legal).

Since you obviously watched the trial, and the 5 White women and 1 Spanish woman didn't see the evidence the same way you did. Where's your proof?

Don't get into that because Zimmerman followed him that Trayvon was legitimately allowed to walk up and punch him in the face. That's not true at all. As a matter of fact. Let's get hypothetical. Let's say Zimmerman didn't have a gun and Trayvon did jump out and punch him. While Zimmerman was the follower, Trayvon would have been arrested for assault. Because Zimmerman did not throw the first punch.

Last night Lisa Bloom was saying Trayvon could hit him because Zimmerman had a gun and was willing to use it. That was her argument AFTER the verdict. Her argument BEFORE the verdict was Trayvon didn't know and couldn't see the gun because Zimmerman had it behind him. You can't have it both ways. Either he knew he had a gun or he didn't.

Bflatt: Yes, he was 17 and just on his way home, and that's TRAGIC. No one including the defense lawyers disagree with that. Yet, last night and today, all the commentators were scolding the defense attorneys because they were insensitive to the Martin family. Forget about the part where they said how this was a tragedy for the Martin family and how awful the entire situation is (was).

Rev Al is WRONG. Because there was no case for 2nd degree murder or manslaughter. But, again you know the case better than the jury. Where's the PROOF? Not one damn lawyer commentator including a few judges felt this was going to go the Prosecutors way. BTW: Rev Al's comment over and over again was Zimmerman got out of his car and followed Trayvon and that's why he's guilty.

Getting out of your car and following anybody is NOT PROOF of murder. It's not even a crime. That was the Rev's entire argument last night. He never said Zimmerman threw the first punch. He never argued that. Just that Zimmerman got out of his car and followed Trayvon. STUPID yes, but, not a crime.

If you want to say the Prosecutors did an awful job, that's fine. But, don't blame the jury who just did their job, and by all accounts by all the commentators agree with them. Even Melissa Perry who was outraged agreed with the jurors. How can you be outraged and yet agree that the verdict was correct? I guess she just wanted revenge like everyone else. Revenge and justice are two different things.

While Zimmerman was wrong about Trayvon in every sense, Trayvon by virtue of the color of his skin and clothing fit the bill as a possible suspect. Yes, I'm sorry. If the burglaries were committed by white people, chances are Trayvon wouldn't have been followed.

Nice photos. Why don't you look up the beheading videos much more graphic. Why don't you look up rape victims or watch the black guy that beat that woman in her own home on the security camera.

You think because I agree with the jury verdict, that I don't understand or care about the heartbreak of the Martin family? It was a TRAGEDY. It shouldn't have happened. George Zimmerman will have to live the rest of his life knowing he killed a young man who was doing absolutely nothing but going home. He'll also have to live in hiding. That's his punishment.

But, this case, which has NOTHING to do with race, is one case, over the past 15 months or so that has captivated this country and centered on race relations, and black people and many white people are outraged that ONE young black man lost his life. Unfortunately all of these people have misinformation. But, if you want to get into real TRAGEDIES look into the black communities all across this nation where thousands of young black males lose their lives each year by black on black shootings. That's TRAGIC, that's REAL. That's much WORSE then one MADE UP racially charged TRAGEDY that was not a murder.

Hell, I'll give it to you. Let's say Zimmerman walked up to Martin called him a black piece of shit and blew his brains out. That's worse than what's going on in these other communities DAILY? Seriously?

Last night Perry and Joanne were talking about how they took their families out of black communities and moved them into safe (never used the word white) communities. But, now they're not even safe there. 1 DEATH in 1 COMMUNITY over what time span?

How much time does the Rev or any other black commentator spend on the problems in the black community on TV? That's a fucking plague on the black communities. They should spend their time discussing that. Working those problems out. Those are real problems.

ANYBODY belongs in ANY neighborhood. But, that doesn't mean the people who live in that neighborhood can't observe them to make sure they're not doing anything criminal. Race has nothing to do with that. That's common sense.

AARON JONES: It's extremely tragic. Yes, there are a ton of white people who are outraged. They're rage is just misplaced in this case.

There are many real cases of racism and horror that happen daily all over the world. This is a made up case from a supremely horrific tragedy, not a crime.

Fight to change laws and bring about a better world. Just pick the battles. Because when you choose a bad one, it softens your overall position. You lose credibility, your position is no longer based on fact. I'll give an example: Tawana Brawley. That's where the Rev Al lost many white supporters (including myself). Once she was found to have lied about EVERYTHING, every black politician and celebrity (Cosby was outspoken) faded and never spoke about it again. But, not the Reverend he still placed blame on completely innocent white people. One of which wasn't even in the state at the time.

Trayvon Martin died tragically for absolutely no reason at all. Unfortunately it was a perfect storm of happenstance where had one of them just opened their mouths and spoke a single sentence this tragedy could have been avoided. It's tragic, but by the definition of the law it wasn't a crime.

You want to change the law, go to it.

UniqueAmI
07-14-2013, 09:36 PM
Am I gonna be banned from here too? I guess I'm just a trouble maker.

Vance Baryn
07-14-2013, 09:54 PM
I think it's fine this thread exists as long as the debate stays here and doesn't spill over anywhere else.

I don't want to get into the argument too much, but I will say this. His being on the neighborhood watch does not constitute an excuse for his actions as some people have suggested ("George Zimmerman was part of the Neighborhood Watch, he wasn't just a pedestrian following a kid."). That should actually make him even more accountable. For example, when I was a truck driver (18 wheeler) if I had gotten into an accident and someone died I could very well have been convicted of manslaughter in a situation where a normal motorists wouldn't even have been charged with anything. On account of having more training and responsibility, people also have a higher level of accountability, not a lower one.

btflatt
07-15-2013, 02:02 AM
The case is about Trayvon Martin murdered by zimmerman. A single African-American child murdered by a man, who called into the police dispatcher shouting anti-black profanity about a 17-year-old child, who he did not recognize as belonging in the neighborhood. It's about zimmerman who stalked this child, challenged him, picked a fight and shot him dead.

What amazes me is that how some people lump a lot of wrongs together as a way of justifying zimmerman's murder of this child and of criticizing folks who question the outcome of the murder trial.

I quote: "Nice photos. Why don't you look up the beheading videos much more graphic. Why don't you look up rape victims or watch the black guy that beat that woman in her own home on the security camera."

The people who behead people are murderers. Barbaric criminals. The black guy who invaded that lady's home is a criminal, whom I am sure won't be tried by an all black jury, and if he were, would be found guilty and punished. Punishment is what he deserves.

The response to that writer's post -- I am sorry to say sounds like something from someone who has some thoughts that could be characterized as racial thinking.

I am not calling that person a racist. I hope he's not. But the reasoning as expressed in that comment is negative racial thinking. Many people express thoughts, through spoken and written words, that are covertly and often overtly unfairly negative toward members of other races.

I quote further from the poster's comments.

Quote: "You think because I agree with the jury verdict, that I don't understand or care about the heartbreak of the Martin family?"

I hope this person does.

He goes on to write -- " It was a TRAGEDY. It shouldn't have happened. George Zimmerman will have to live the rest of his life knowing he killed a young man who was doing absolutely nothing but going home. He'll also have to live in hiding. That's his punishment."

Really, that's his punishment? zimmerman is a pathological liar. In time, such people believe their own lies.

More from this poster: "But, this case, which has NOTHING to do with race, is one case, over the past 15 months or so that has captivated this country and centered on race relations, and black people and many white people are outraged that ONE young black man lost his life. Unfortunately all of these people have misinformation."

This case has everything to do about race. From zimmerman's motivations, as expressed in his calls to the police dispatcher, to his early support from the Ku Klux Klan, to the conduct of the trial, the all white jury, the racial fear mongering by the defense attorney, and the lame prosecution.

Now, here is where the poster really brings up racial stereotypes and profiling. Under discussion is the murder of one African-American child. The poster launches into an attack on the African-American community.

I quote: "But, if you want to get into real TRAGEDIES look into the black communities all across this nation where thousands of young black males lose their lives each year by black on black shootings. That's TRAGIC, that's REAL."

No one should shoot anymore. No young life should be snuffed out.

The poster throws black on black crime out as justification for stereotyping young black males.

Well, a young man went into a Connecticut school, shot and killed little school kids. Wounded many. The young man was white, most if not all of the kids were white. A young man went into a Colorado movie theater, shot and killed movie patrons. Wounded several people. The young man is white, most if not all of his victims were white. A young man went to a political rally, shot a Congresswoman in the head, killed a kid and a judge, and wounded people. The young man is white. Most of the victims are white. Do we stereotype white young men as dangerous criminals?

In Southern Indiana, a white man set house fire to his fiancee's house. The fire killed her two children. A white man from England, pretended to be a local kid, left comments on the memorial page of a 17-year-old Tennessee girl school, who was killed by a drunk driver. He wrote, I'm glad the fat bitch is dead. Let's drink to drink driving. No one gives a shit that she's dead, get over it. If I was there now I would rape you." Later, on another page, he left the comment, My father has three guns. I'm planning on killing him first and putting him in a dumpster, then adding, I'm killing 200 people minimum at school. I will be on CNN."

These are just a few examples of white on white crime. Do we stereotype all white men in America and in England as criminals? Of course we don't. Such a thing would be stupid. And wrong.

Back to the poster. He continues: "That's much WORSE then one MADE UP racially charged TRAGEDY that was not a murder."

The murder of Trayvon Martin wasn't made up. zimmerman's racist comments to the police dispatcher weren't made up.

The poster goes on. "How much time does the Rev or any other black commentator spend on the problems in the black community on TV? That's a fucking ...."

I wonder why the poster saw the need to resort to profanity.

When the poster brings up the worst stereotypes about young black males, he keeps stating that the zimmerman case has " nothing to do with" race. And he insists that his statement is "common sense."

Really?

JHar888
07-15-2013, 05:31 AM
969

btflatt
07-15-2013, 06:10 AM
I saw the Internet photos of zimmerman's wounds. That second photo looks suspect. Can anybody say: photo shop?

I remind folks that the police medical people who looked at zimmerman wounds said that they were minor. Also, zimmerman refused on two occasions to go to a hospital to have his injuries checked. Also, zimmerman was well aware of the state's stand your ground law, and so he took steps to protect himself from justice, and that zimmerman is a pathological liar, of whom the prosecutor said lied and kept lying.

Also take a look at other Internet photos of zimmerman. Notice that he gained weight and made himself look physically weaker, and also made himself look more Hispanic. Does anybody wonder why?

UniqueAmI
07-15-2013, 06:12 PM
1. who called into the police dispatcher shouting anti-black profanity about a 17-year-old child, zimmerman's racist comments to the police dispatcher weren't made up.

1a) What amazes me is that how some people lump a lot of wrongs together...

2) I quote: "Nice photos. Why don't you look up the beheading videos much more graphic. Why don't you look up rape victims or watch the black guy that beat that woman in her own home on the security camera."

The response to that writer's post -- I am sorry to say sounds like something from someone who has some thoughts that could be characterized as racial thinking.

3) I am not calling that person a racist. I hope he's not. But the reasoning as expressed in that comment is negative racial thinking. Many people express thoughts, through spoken and written words, that are covertly and often overtly unfairly negative toward members of other races.

4) That's his punishment."

More from this poster: "But, this case, which has NOTHING to do with race, is one case, over the past 15 months or so that has captivated this country and centered on race relations, and black people and many white people are outraged that ONE young black man lost his life. Unfortunately all of these people have misinformation."

5) This case has everything to do about race. From zimmerman's motivations, as expressed in his calls to the police dispatcher, to his early support from the Ku Klux Klan, to the conduct of the trial, the all white jury, the racial fear mongering by the defense attorney, and the lame prosecution.

6) Now, here is where the poster really brings up racial stereotypes and profiling. Under discussion is the murder of one African-American child. The poster launches into an attack on the African-American community.

I quote: "But, if you want to get into real TRAGEDIES look into the black communities all across this nation where thousands of young black males lose their lives each year by black on black shootings. That's TRAGIC, that's REAL."

No one should shoot anymore. No young life should be snuffed out.

7) The poster throws black on black crime out as justification for stereotyping young black males.

8) These are just a few examples of white on white crime.

Back to the poster. He continues: "That's much WORSE then one MADE UP racially charged TRAGEDY that was not a murder."

The poster goes on. "How much time does the Rev or any other black commentator spend on the problems in the black community on TV? That's a fucking ...."

I wonder why the poster saw the need to resort to profanity.

When the poster brings up the worst stereotypes about young black males, he keeps stating that the zimmerman case has " nothing to do with" race. And he insists that his statement is "common sense."

Really?

This is going to be my last reply in this thread. Well frankly #1 says it all.

1. What part of Fucking Punks - these assholes - He looks black or And he's a black male is the shouting anti- black profanity?

Are you talking about the fucking coons statement? That turned out to actually be fucking punks.

The only person that used racial slurs was Trayvon when he called Zimmerman A "creepy ass kill my neighbors cracker" and a "nigga".

That's just a little mistake that you pointed to twice as proof that he's a racist murderer.


http://youtu.be/L04Vh4do6bY

1a) See above and most of the rest of your post.

2. Would that be anti-black racist thinking? Because black people don't behead others, that would be Muslim/islamic folks. Rapists come in all colors shapes and sizes. The black video I was talking about had to with the fact you decided to put up pictures of a young dead boy as if that proves the case of murder. It doesn't. It proves that a young life was taken. It was up to a jury to decide if it was murder or self defense. They did. Like the facts that you choose to ignore, you choose to ignore their verdict (more on that in 5)

3. Yeah, you are calling me a racist. But, you're wrong about the facts, so you can just keep up the good work. Believe what you want.

4. That is his punishment. Until some idiot can find and shoot him, then that's his punishment.

BTW: Trayvon's father would be my hero, if he killed Zimmerman. I would applaud that. You kill my son, I kill you. I think that's completely fair. Of course, he'd go to jail for the rest of his life, maybe...

But, lets go a little further on his punishment/legal woes.

I saw Judge Alex on Fox (yeah go figure) and he was one that felt given the evidence the charges should have never been brought.

He was asked about ZImmerman's further legal battles. This is what he had to say, and hold on because it ain't pretty. I'm not stating it as fact, but he's fairly knowledgeable and others have said kind of the same thing.

The DOJ at this point will have to do some really fancy footwork, because the Civil Rights laws which were brought against the Rodney King officers (this is what they're looking in to) are there for raging racists. like the KKK and those cops. It's not meant for citizens. So, the likelihood of Civil Rights violations being brought are pretty slim. Though if there's enough pressure from the people a case might be brought. Which will then be lost, because they'd have to literally make up a case.

Here's the really shameful one, which has to do with Florida law. It's also the reason why Zimmerman gave up his right to a "Stand Your Ground" hearing. (This is scary fascinating)

Because Zimmerman was found Not Guilty by this jury, he might have Amnesty or Impunity (I forget which he said) from a civil lawsuit. If the Martins bring the case (which they have), and they go to court and the Judge declares that Zimmerman can not be held libel. Zimmerman can then turn around and have the Martins pay for all costs incurred by him, and he will get it. I'm not saying he will. But, why wouldn't he? Legal fees are not cheap and he can never work again.

That's the reason why he gave up the right to the Stand Your Ground hearing. If the hearing went through and the Judge decided there was enough evidence to hold a trial, the outcome of the trial would hold no baring on the civil case. Because a Judge already said there was enough evidence to proceed. In which case the Prosecutor just didn't prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

Now, when they go to court in the civil case, his lawyers can say that Zimmerman was found not guilty and that the verdict proves it was self defense (even if that's not true. No one knows how the jury came to their decision). If the Judge agrees, the Martins will be... there isn't really a proper word to describe what they'd be.

5. That's the problem, this case has nothing to do with race. There are no non races. Everyone has color to their skin (except Albinos. But, they are whiter then white). Listen to the 911 call, and tell me how he profiled the kid.

FROM the Klan? Seriously? You blame Zimmerman because the Klan decided to applaud the death of a black kid and support him? They applaud every time a black or Jew dies.

You talk about me making "racist" insinuations and yet you mention the all white jury... Yep, you're not profiling or bringing race into the court room. An all white jury couldn't possibly bring true justice. They couldn't possibly see the truth. Would that be EVERY WHITE PERSON, or just SOUTHERN WHITE PEOPLE? Profiling runs deep throughout everyone, yourself included. I believe those white honky bitches did their job properly.

6. Attack? No. FACT! You missed the entire point. For 15 or so months all black or white commentators have focused on is one Trumped Up racial trial. Which turned out not be racial at all. Yet, everyday in black communities young black males are murdered.

Which of the TWO are more lethal to young black males? Which needs more attention?

7. Yep, I do. I stereotype everyone I come in contact with. I look at a person and say "this person looks nice... This person looks like that might rob me... She's cute... He's fat... Oh my God what the hell is that?"

I do, I judge, I make first impressions of everyone. So does EVERY OTHER MOTHER FUCKING PERSON ON THE PLANET. I'm just honest enough to admit it.

I've seen just as white people that I think are up to no good as I do black. I have no fear of any Asian or Indian. They could all kick my ass. They're just quite peaceful on the whole.

I'm personally in favor of them profiling Muslims at the airports. Because my wife's mother who is 75 and every time she gets on a plane is the one they pull over to the side and rip her bag apart. This way when the ACLU cries "profiling" they can say no look at this old white woman, she could be a terrorist or drug smuggler.

Fuck common sense. That old honkey is definitely hiding something.

I personally believe that both Israel and the Paleistinians are wrong. The Palistinians deserve a state, and the Israelis deserve to live in peace. But, the Israelis got it right at their airports. They profile, because they know they it works. They do it with simple questions. They don't have all the crap the US does.

7. Black people don't want to live in black communities. Why is that? Are they stereotyping their own? No. It's because when they send their children out into the streets, they don't if they're going to come home that night. Which ones are they afraid of? Is it that one, or that one, or perhaps that one. I don't know. I don't care. I don't go to black communities. Because I've been harassed the few times I have. But, it's not like they did that because of the color of my skin or anything. Yes, I am the racist. I just don't judge the race, I judge the individual.

8. White crimes. PLENTY of them. Just different sorts. Yes, the profile for serial killer and spree killers is WHITE. I knew that. I live on ID, Biography, Dateline... They're also great at killing their spouses. White people love to kill the ones they marry. It's heartwarming. They also love to embezzle money from companies. They burgle, they rape, they're much more top rung on the drug dealer ladder. The blacks work for them, that's why the blacks go to prison while the white guys sit in their cushy mansions. Hey, I don't make the rules, I just see them play out. Is it fair? No. But, if you decide to stand on a street corner dealing illegal drugs and you easily get caught, then you deserve to go to jail. If you're smart and hire the people to do that, you get to sit back and reap the rewards of destroying countless lives of all races.

The difference between black and white profiling is white people don't shoot everyday. There is a profile for serial killers and spree killers. Once maybe twice a year this happens. It happens EVERY DAY in black communities. The profile for this is young black males.

Black people kill black people on a daily basis. Not one or two. Well maybe one or two in each community. But, that's okay. That doesn't need exposure or talking or working out or bringing to the forefront. Why? Because we have a much bigger problem. One black kid who was just walking home was approached by a partial white guy, they had a fight and the kid was killed. That deserves 15 months of front page attention. The other thousands,eh that's life. We got that under control. (since you won't get it. Read this paragraph with all the sarcasm it carries).

My common sense statement was made regarding people watching ANYONE that doesn't live in their neighborhood regardless of race. But, here it is again "ANYBODY belongs in ANY neighborhood (in other words Trayvon had EVERY RIGHT to be there). But, that doesn't mean the people who live in that neighborhood (ZImmerman or anyone looking out there window) can't observe them to make sure they're not doing anything criminal. Race has nothing to do with that (that goes for EVERY HUMAN BEING ON THE PLANET). That's common sense."

Thank you for taking the statement completely out of context.

Why did I say Fucking? What word follows? PLAGUE. It's a fucking plague on the black communities. That's an exclamation point on the tragedies that take place daily in those communities. But, all ANYONE seems to care about is one tragedy that the media created racial motivation. Because that's NEWS.

Let's do a little young black male math.

15 months ago George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin. One black male dead. Tragedy.

Everyday across our nation roughly 20 young black males are killed by other young black males. Which comes out to 7300 young black males dead. That's a fucking plague.

So, figure out who's more dangerous to young black males, white guys, or black guys.

Nothing lessens the pain the Martin family has gone through. But, it wasn't a racially motivated killing. That's what everyone is screaming it is. No one cares that close to 10000 other young black males have been killed since, by their own skin brothers. Oh and lets not forget that some of the 10000 black male killers have been arrested. So, they're incarcerated. So lets say 1/4 of the killers 2500 are sitting in jail for the next 25 - 30 years (they'll be out when they're in their 50s.) That's 12500 young black male lives AND families DESTROYED.

But, none of those are as important or deserve the coverage and time that is so desperately needed because we have George Zimmerman to hang. Because he's shouting anti black profanity "he's a black male".

Yeah, now I'm pissed. Because God Damn common sense.

I do love your now conspiracy theory on the Zimmerman photoshop photo.

Gotta love ya man.

You're now more than welcome to respond. Tell me what a racist pig I am. And it's people like me that make this world a truly horrible place (even though I've never been in a fight, altercation, I don't respond when idiots say ignorant shit to me while I'm minding my own business, I've broken up fights, helped mugging victims. Spoken out for everyone's rights. I've been called a feminist. Was just as outraged as everyone else at the Rodney King verdict. Felt OJ was given a fair criminal trial, an unfair (especially the judgement) civil trial, and was convicted of murder in Las Vegas. I voted for Obama twice. Love his views on most everything. I think he's doing an amazing job considering the assholes he has to deal with. I like many thought that Zimmerman was a racist pig and guilty as sin until the trial started. Anyway go to it. Say what you like, you get the last word.

btflatt
07-16-2013, 04:57 AM
Are we still discussing this? Well, I have one last comment on the matter.

The verdict came in 10 P.M. Saturday night, by Monday, it was announced that, "one of the jurors has signed with Sharlene Martin, a book agent with Martin Literary Management. Juror B37, who plans to stay anonymous at least for now, will write about her experience serving on a high-profile murder case and why the panel had to find Zimmerman not guilty. The juror hasn't inked a book deal yet, but that's probably only a matter of time."

The juror plans to co-write the book with her attorney hubby.

Something doesn't smell right here. Don't you know that if zimmerman was found guilty the book would have little value. With zimmerman given a walk, the juror and her hubby's book could be marketed to gun nuts.

Let me back up a minute here. I support the Second Amendment, the Right to Bear Arms. It's in the Constitution for a good reason. But the Second Amendment does not give the killer zimmerman a license to murder a child.

Back to the juror. I wonder if she led, guided, the discussion for an acquittal. I wonder if she was thinking about the book deal all along. Maybe the judge should ask her a few questions. Maybe also the FBI?

Tainted Juror? Tainted Jury?

MrJay10
07-17-2013, 03:29 AM
I've remained kind of whatever about this, because I can't stand how the media always blows things up and gets you to see what they want you see, or to just make a profit off of it. They've really made a celebrity out of George Zimmerman. But from my honest opinion, going back and looking at everything, I really don't think Trayvon is as innocent as people think. I don't know I just have a gut feeling Zimmerman killed him in self-defense. Granted he probably did racially profile him, (as we all have done) But Trayvon had been suspended from school before, so it wasn't the first time he'd been in trouble for fighting. The fact that Zimmerman admitted to the cop he killed Trayvon on site, should tell people something. Most people would have ran or tried to hide it.

I don't know, I'm not saying these are facts, but this is what I think happened. I think Zimmerman followed Trayvon, then Trayvon followed him back after he realized he was being followed, acted tough, and tried to fight him. Again, just my opinion.

But either way, at the end of the day a 17 year old kid is dead, and nothing is going to bring him back. If we can all just stop watching the media's tricks and following the crowds of what everyone else is doing, and have opinions of our own, maybe we could have a more sensible picture of what really happened. I dont know.

I think the bigger crime is what people have used this 17 year kid's murder for. T-Shirts, slogans, celebrity status, Image of being cool with the hoody up. The "new" black panther party acting like they want vengeance on Zimmerman. It's all ridiculous. I understand black people are tired of being treated like garbage in America and it's understandable. And being from a black background I've seen & experienced this stuff first hand. But today, black on black crime is actually significantly higher than white on black. In my humble opinion the only way to truly get justice for Trayvon is when black people will stop playing the victim card, get up and TRULY make a difference.

Reverse rasicm solves nothing.

JHar888
07-17-2013, 05:05 AM
Ok, I don't get the joke. Who is JHar888. Maybe I am missing something there, maybe it's an inside name, like you are high and mighty in the industry, and "everyone in the know knows" who JHar88 is but I don't know who JHar888 is. A simple name would suffice.

Never once did I pretend to be "high and mighty in the industry," but there's a link to the right of my username that you can click on. ;)

btflatt
07-17-2013, 05:44 AM
MrJay. I've posted my thoughts on the killer zimmerman and don't have anything much to add on that account.

I do wish to reply to your statements, "The fact that Zimmerman admitted to the cop he killed Trayvon on site, should tell people something. Most people would have ran or tried to hide it."

Well, zimmerman had studied the stand your ground law. And his daddy's a retired judge. He shot a black kid, figured that he could get away with it, probably thought that this actions were justified. And neighbors came out during the fight, but didn't see how it started, did see zimmerman shoot the child.

Your other statement, "But today, black on black crime is... "

I refer you to an article in the Daily Beast of July 15th, "The Myth of Black-on-Black Crime."
Quote the author -- "Many conservatives are furious that race was “injected” into the trial of George Zimmerman. If Zimmerman were black, the argument goes, no one would have cared. But there’s a huge problem with this attempt to shift the conversation to the supposedly ignored epidemic of “black-on-black” crime, writes The Daily Beast’s Jamelle Bouie. Namely: there’s no such thing as “black-on-black” crime."


The author's premise is that crime "is driven by proximity and opportunity."


If you want to read more the link is: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/07/15/the-trayvon-martin-killing-and-the-myth-of-black-on-black-crime.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Cheat%20Sheet&utm_campaign=cheatsheet_afternoon&cid=newsletter%3Bemail%3Bcheatsheet_afternoon

Apologists are trying to justify the the stalking of a black child, whom was in the neighborhood visiting his father, and the murder of that child, by saying that black males have an inherent criminal nature.

As for crime. Crime is a problem in this country and throughout the world. If one would do a Google search for crime news articles, he will find that people of various races engage in awful crime each and everyday.

Also, you mentioned that the murdered child was suspended for fighting. Are you suggesting that somehow this excuses his killer? Kids fight for all sorts of reasons. Black males get suspended from schools quicker, and in greater numbers than white males who fight.

Also, remember, the child did not know who his stalker was. The stalker could have been a homo stalker, for all the kid knew.

Before you speculate and put the blame for the victim's death on the victim, or put some of the blame on the victim, remember that the attacker has been proven to be a liar. His version of the tale could be just another of his lies.

Anyway, I've said enough on the killer zimmerman. I want to focus on other thoughts.

MrJay10
07-17-2013, 06:02 AM
Apologists are trying to justify the the stalking of a black child, whom was in the neighborhood visiting his father, and the murder of that child, by saying that black males have an inherent criminal nature.

I never implied they had an inherent criminal nature lol. My cousin was shot and killed when he was 19 due to black on black crime. I've seen it first hand. I'm just saying it is an issue more than people think. That being said, black on black crime is not the only crime out there, I understand that. I think it all really depends on how you were raised and where you live.

"As for crime. Crime is a problem in this country and throughout the world. If one would do a Google search for crime news articles, he will find that people of various races engage in awful crime each and everyday."

lol Well of course I know that. I'm just applying it to this since people are turning this into a race issue.

"Also, you mentioned that the murdered child was suspended for fighting. Are you suggesting that somehow this excuses his killer? Kids fight for all sorts of reasons. Black males get suspended from schools quicker, and in greater numbers than white males who fight."

I never said that....? And yeah I know that too lol. As for that last sentence, I want to know where that statistic is found lol.

"Also, remember, the child did not know who his stalker was. The stalker could have been a homo stalker, for all the kid knew."

You're profiling Zimmerman the same way Zimmerman profiled Trayvon. He was on neighborhood watch too...he's supposed to be watching the neighborhood. Why he needed a gun, I don't know.


"Before you speculate and put the blame for the victim's death on the victim, or put some of the blame on the victim, remember that the attacker has been proven to be a liar. His version of the tale could be just another of his lies."

I'll keep it respectful. But it really just sounds like you're talking through the news now.

I'm stepping away from the conversation lol. This is why I hate the news in America.

btflatt
07-17-2013, 06:44 AM
Mr Jay asked, "I want to know where that statistic is found lol."

Here's a quote: "Black students are suspended more than three times as often as their white classmates, twice as often as their Latino classmates and more than 10 times as often as their Asian classmates in middle and high schools nationwide, a new study shows.

'The average American secondary student has an 11% chance of being suspended in a single school year, according to the study from the University of California-Los Angeles Civil Rights project. However, if that student is black, the odds of suspension jump to 24%.

'Previous studies have shown that even a single suspension can double a student's odds of dropping out, said Daniel Losen, a former Boston-area teacher and one of the authors of "Out of School & Off Track: The Overuse of Suspensions in American Middle and High Schools," released in April. The study used U.S. Department of Education data collected during the 2009-2010 school year, the latest available.

' "Pointing fingers and using the 'racism' word isn't going to get us where we need to go," said Losen, who is white. "But I think we need to acknowledge that there may be general bias against black students." '"

JHar888
07-17-2013, 06:39 PM
Mr Jay asked, "I want to know where that statistic is found lol."

Here's a quote: "Black students are suspended more than three times as often as their white classmates, twice as often as their Latino classmates and more than 10 times as often as their Asian classmates in middle and high schools nationwide, a new study shows.

'The average American secondary student has an 11% chance of being suspended in a single school year, according to the study from the University of California-Los Angeles Civil Rights project. However, if that student is black, the odds of suspension jump to 24%.

'Previous studies have shown that even a single suspension can double a student's odds of dropping out, said Daniel Losen, a former Boston-area teacher and one of the authors of "Out of School & Off Track: The Overuse of Suspensions in American Middle and High Schools," released in April. The study used U.S. Department of Education data collected during the 2009-2010 school year, the latest available.

' "Pointing fingers and using the 'racism' word isn't going to get us where we need to go," said Losen, who is white. "But I think we need to acknowledge that there may be general bias against black students." '"

Hmm...