PDA

View Full Version : solutions to movie piracy



gorillafilms
03-29-2013, 10:35 AM
piracy has become worse than ever now, Piracy will be the death of the film industry, as it killed the music industry, and while it makes a smaller dent in huge movies like the advengers, it really hurts small films.

The big issue in Eli's blog post concerns the pirated copies of Hostel 2 that are on the Internet and the streets in near DVD quality even though the film it shows isn't finished yet. This is Eli's main contention as for why his film did so poorly at the box, unable to match its predecessor's $19.5 million opening weekend

i think it can be fun if we bounce ideas about anti piracy . maybe one of us will find the holly grall idea that will change the world .

mara
03-29-2013, 10:41 AM
Could you post a link to the blog post that you mention?

gorillafilms
03-29-2013, 10:58 AM
here is the blog : http://www.myspace.com/eliroth/blog

I don't know if it was the most downloaded film of all time, but there are tracking services that track what movies are being downloaded. And a copy of Hostel 2 leaked out before its release and they had it, it was like millions and millions of hits. Not only was it downloaded, but in the countries it was downloaded — like Mexico and Brazil — there were copies on the street for practically a penny. You could buy Hostel 2 for a quarter in Mexico City. As a result, in a lot of countries where the piracy was bad, they just didn't even release it.[18]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eli_Roth

here a fun anti piracy trailer:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3Z8eq0xrqU

Nick Soares
03-29-2013, 11:46 AM
Well it cannot be controlled if the people have an open shop (online) and no one can do anything about it. I think that sites that offer stolen content should be taken down, but for some reason the rest of the world wants to keep them up..... Frustrating

mara
03-29-2013, 11:52 AM
Nick - why do you think that is? The rest of the world wanting to keep them up, I mean.

Nick Soares
03-29-2013, 11:58 AM
Nick - why do you think that is? The rest of the world wanting to keep them up, I mean.

There are a few reasons:

#1 People do not understand how damaging these sites are.

#2 People do not care

#3 We try to write a new law --> SOPA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act) but we went to deep and tried to control to much and people hated that - They should have just made it simple and clear that only sites that are directly offering "pirated films/Music" would get taken down. But SOPA literally stated that "ANY" website that hosted "potential" copyright content could be shut down, that means that if someone posted a video on filmmakerforum.org that had a copyright to it then filmmakerforum.org would be turned off. (That is what I mean by "they went to deep")

#4 People like to steel....

mara
03-29-2013, 12:04 PM
They should have just made it simple and clear that only sites that are directly offering "pirated films/Music" would get taken down. But SOPA literally stated that "ANY" website that hosted "potential" copyright content could be shut down, that means that if someone posted a video on filmmakerforum.org that had a copyright to it then filmmakerforum.org would be turned off.

Great point, Nick - I agree.

I think part of the problem is that the lawyers and regulators were trying to set it up so that when a site was set up that they knew - based on past experience - was going to be used for pirating, they could shut it down.
But that's just not practical/realistic.

gorillafilms
03-29-2013, 12:05 PM
actualy i think we need to attack the source ; for me there is a bunch of pirates movie addict . i see them as drug addicts . we need to attack the source like in the matrix and send them a judge dredd :) to destroy all open shops servers and torrents websites.

anyway china maybe can help us on this : they are the leader on Internet control . but instead to use those tools for political reason just use it to erase all kind of piracy on internet .
ast .
i m getting extreme because some years ago i used to work on the music industry and had many friend studio owner . i saw all the industries die so fast in morocco . we have almost zero music producer now . and when piracy killed music industry she said : you are the next : prepare to die .

gorillafilms
03-29-2013, 12:07 PM
in france now peopel are so afraid to download or even open a torrent website : because the new law adopi . at least i know that i can sell to french market and make some profit .

Troy
03-29-2013, 12:24 PM
Well as of recently they have been tracking who has been pirating content. They are not taking action but have been placing IP addresses into a database. Hopefully with that information people will decide not to do it in fear of action. (I'm not 100% positive this is true due to the sources i got this info from)

I always thought there is 2 major ways on helping fight it

1) Give people access to movies in a cheaper and easy way. (Netflix)

2) Take more action on the major offenders to set examples.

EuropeanDistributor
03-29-2013, 03:30 PM
The way I see it, piracy is here to stay, you cannot control it.
As long as people have access to the internet, they will have access to free information.

When they shut down a torrent site, ten new ones open in it's place.

When they take down a movie from youtube, ten users will upload it back up again. You see where I'm going with this.

The fact is, times are tough, times are changing. People don't want to spend $15-$20 on a brand new dvd, they'll rather just either download it or watch it on the internet.

As far as music industry goes, there is hardly any left, but the ones that are left, they have learned to adapt.

There are new wonderful services, like Spotify, where you can stream music for free, only you have to listen to commercials, or pay a small fee for the unlimited commercial free streaming.

I don't know for sure, but I would guess, Spotify, iTunes and such services have helped to reduce piracy in music.

Also it's pretty interesting that CD sales have been going down for years, but vinyl sales are going up.

People still want their music, they just don't want to spend money on a piece of plastic, they'd rather hear it for free, or spend money on a physical media that they feel is worthy of spending their hard earned money on.

The same thing is happenning in the film business.

I personally love Netflix. For a small monthly fee you have thousands upon thousands of hours of content, movies and tv shows you can watch as much and as often as you like.

Personally I used to often watch movies on VOD services, you pay $3-$5 for a movie and you can watch it at home.
After I got Netflix, I have not paid for a single VOD rental.
I'd rather pay $8 a month and watch all the movies I want on Netflix.

Naturally they don't have everything on there, but it still is a fantastic value.

I also watch some movies on Crackle, it's completely free, so they don't have as big of a collection there.

The other great thing is youtube.

The biggest youtubers can make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year just from youtube ads. The top youtubers not only can make a nice living, but their productions are basically on the level of small tv-studios or independent production companies.

If there is an audience for you, you can get paid and make a profit, you just have to find that audience and find the right distribution channel for your content.

Great example, Video Game High School, they have a huge fanbase, their Youtube videos are basically mini movies. They were able to raise almost a million bucks through Kickstarter for their second season of Video Game High School.

The great thing about that is, it's all completely free on youtube, they not only make money from the ads on there, but also from the fundraiser campaign.

Traditional distribution is still here.

You can still sell your movie to buyers around the world, the only thing is, you aren't going to get paid the same you would have two or five or ten years ago.
That's why you have to adapt, you make your movie on a smaller budget etc.

If you produce quality content that has an audience out there, you can earn money and even make a profit. It just might not be on DVD or in the theatres like in the old days.

Nick Soares
03-29-2013, 03:45 PM
[#]EuropeanDistributor[/#] I will have to disagree with you on a few of those comments. Though I do understand you can never EVER get rid of the bad guy, you can still put a dent in the way people think by publicly stating some new rules. There has never been a big announcement about this, and I think if someone in the higher-ups can state some new laws to everyone then we can at lease scare some people

Vance Baryn
03-29-2013, 04:52 PM
What no one has mentioned is that the problem is far more complex than anyone imagines. If you actually understand how online file distribution works these days (like torrents for example) you will understand that it is literally impossible to get rid of it without seriously infringing on the rights of countless innocent parties (like SOPA).

It's amazing how many people just assume that everyone who has tried to tackle this problem is just an idiot and there's some easy way to do it that (for some reason) people don't try. People often say things like "sites that offer stolen content should be taken down" (thereby completely misunderstanding the issue) or they champion legislation like HADOPI or SOPA (thereby throwing the baby out with bathwater... putting information sharing in a strangle hold).

EuropeanDistributor is absolutely right that piracy is here to stay because the alternatives (all of them) are abominations.

I for one am a musician AND a film maker, so I get hit from both sides, but guess what? the music industry has dealt with piracy for a hell of a lot longer than the film industry. You see, people have been making music for thousands of years. They have been notating music (which is easily copied) for almost a thousand years. They have been recording music commercially for only about 100 years. There were musicians for a long time before there were record companies. How did they make money?

Movies are a bit more complex because the entire art form developed along with the technology to distribute it. However, I have said for a long time (since I learned what it really took to make a film) that there are people in the film industry that are just downright overpaid (usually name actors, often also name directors, and there are other examples as well). Many great films get made on ultra low budgets with no name actors and directors. Is this the future of movies? If so, good! There is simply no reason I can imagine that an actor or a director needs to make millions of dollars per movie, driving up the costs for anyone who wants to buy it. If the future of movies is low budget productions that can be sold for cheap so that people have little to no incentive to pirate it, I say right on!

I think that may just inspire the creative spark this stagnant film industry has been waiting for.

Director
03-29-2013, 05:49 PM
Yes, piracy is a problem, however, there are still a lot of people that want to support the artist, and even though you probably can't become filthy, stinking rich in this business anymore, you can at least become stinking rich, if you have talent.

To my fellow artists I say this. Don't bother yourselves with these thoughts. There will always be crooks, but don't let it get in the way of what you love doing. Keep learning your craft. Personally, I would rather walk around with cool thoughts in my head.

Patrick Wiley
03-29-2013, 06:04 PM
There are a few reasons:

#1 People do not understand how damaging these sites are.

#2 People do not care

#3 We try to write a new law --> SOPA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act) but we went to deep and tried to control to much and people hated that - They should have just made it simple and clear that only sites that are directly offering "pirated films/Music" would get taken down. But SOPA literally stated that "ANY" website that hosted "potential" copyright content could be shut down, that means that if someone posted a video on filmmakerforum.org that had a copyright to it then filmmakerforum.org would be turned off. (That is what I mean by "they went to deep")

#4 People like to steel....

Part of the motivation is the idea that by pirating you're "sticking it to the man". I once new a guy who intentionally avoided official releases. You should have heard him bitch up a storm when we watched Star Ship Troopers on Hulu. You'd think he was being physically tortured every time there was a commercial break. He actually ended up getting a cease and desist order. His housemates were not happy about their internet being monitored.

As was mentioned at the start of the thread, high budget blockbuster movies like The Avengers can withstand piracy. They're also the ones that are most likely to press charges on pirates. I've heard of porn companies actually leaving the providers of pirated content alone simply so they can make money off of settlements with the people that download it. I don't know how accurate that is or if it applies to the movie industry too but it's certainly something to look into. In any case as long as big soulless corporations are touted as the true victims of piracy people wont feel an ounce of guilt about it.

It's easy for us to forget that information which is common knowledge in the film community isn't so well known outside. A lot of people probably assume any film with decent production values was made by a big corporation. They therefore assume their piracy is resulting in $10 less in the pocket of someone who's already a multi millionaire. I think they'd be less inclined to pirate if they knew they were stealing from entrepreneurs with much lighter bank accounts. Some PSAs about how piracy hurts the independent film industry might do some good.

gorillafilms
03-29-2013, 07:04 PM
netflix seem to be a great solution . but they dont have rich content like itune. anyway it create another kind of piracy :webrip

"Webrips are attempts at capturing the streaming video and audio from either a tv network's website or something like Hulu that are mostly very unsatisfactory. WEB-DL are files purchased from the various national iTunes stores or from Amazon on Demand and which then have the DRM removed." good quality.

and here a pirate conversation : they also try to find solutions :)

"
WEB-DL sounds like it requries a lot more finesse than a WEBRip does. Are there equally piracy traps in both formats? I mean, lately in Denmark the famous Danish TV-shows are getting pirated (source: webrip) and the producers have started to place small codes in the video format to make it easier to catch pirates.
perma-lienparent


[–]tmstmssmart guy:

Well- most Web-DLs originate from people or groups of people who know what they are doing. On a TV tracker such people may divide up the shows according to what they are interested in and release them to the community.

Piracy traps are principally done by rights holders joining the swarm of torrenters and picking up the IP addresses, then contacting the ISPs that have those addresses assigned to customers.

In the sidebar here, 'How do I stay anonymous?' is a good starting place to see how to avoid piracy traps. Personally, I use seedbox and private trackers.

Director
03-29-2013, 07:08 PM
Some PSAs about how piracy hurts the independent film industry might do some good.

A PSA would be a great idea, and here's the script for it:

FADE IN

The scene opens on STEPHEN SPEILBERG, sitting under a bridge. His clothes are ripped and tattered.
We can see his frosty breath. The backdrop a shopping cart stuffed with his worldly belongings.

NARRATOR
Piracy is not a victimless crime. Every year thousands of
filmmakers wind up on the street, homeless.

A snowball splatters against the side of Stephen's head. He hardly
notices it as he picks up a bottle wrapped in a twisted brown
paper bag and takes a swig.

NARRATOR
But now you can help by sending us your money.
For every dollar your donate, two cents goes to help people,
like Stephen.

Stephen is pushing his shopping cart down the street. His jeans are
split on both legs from the hip down. Shoe toes flappin'.

NARRATOR
Won't you help? You can begin by spying
on your thieving neighbors.

Stephen is in an alleyway, squatting in the corner of a red brick building
that has seen better days. His pants are around his ankles. His face is
straining red. The tendons popping out of his neck, a vein pulsates in
his forehead.

NARRATOR
You can help now so Stephen will have
a warm place to shit.

Stephen is standing on a busy street corner ranting, raving
and babbling incoherently at the people passing by. Pointing
his finger at nothing in all directions and then laughing hysterically.

NARRATOR
Give, so Stephen can live!

SECOND NARRATOR quickly reads off the disclosure statement as it
scrolls across the bottom of the screen.

SECOND NARRATOR
This public service announcement has been brought to you by the makers "SOAP". Soap, the handy
little bar that you use in the shower to wash your naughty bits with. AND by the fine makers of
"Liquid Tooth Shortener" made with purified water, chalk dust and salt. Liquid Tooth Shortener,
for when your teeth are just too damn long!

Final Shot of Stephen digging through a trashcan. He finds an old woman's wig. He flips it
this way and that inspecting it, then plops it on his head and shuffles off down the street.

FADE OUT

Patrick Wiley
03-29-2013, 07:27 PM
I don't think that would do much to discourage downloading indy films but that might make a good Whitest Kids You Know sketch.

2001 Productions
03-30-2013, 10:10 AM
The scene opens on STEPHEN SPEILBERG

Is that Steven Spielberg's ne'er-do-well cousin? ;-)

Patrick Wiley
03-30-2013, 12:53 PM
I think he's the dopple-ganger that Erkle's cloning machine creates when Steven Speilberg steps into it.

Mark
03-30-2013, 01:24 PM
I have forwarded this thread to a senator I know

Director
03-30-2013, 06:59 PM
I have forwarded this thread to a senator I know

LOL. Yes, when you really don't want anything to get done, ask a politician.

Nick Soares
03-30-2013, 07:02 PM
LOL. Yes, when you really don't want anything to get done, ask a politician.

I agree, but you never know :)

EricTheMan
03-31-2013, 07:16 AM
I home the whole record IP database really works, I don't want my first film to be given away for free :(

tiptheauthors
05-04-2013, 09:59 PM
I am doing research on similar topic, how to implement business models without the need of any punishemnts, restrictions and render ACTA useless.

Please take 2 minutes to aswer these a few multiple choice questions http://goo.gl/2cXRp