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Sleazypanda
02-26-2013, 01:45 PM
Exactly what the title says i want to know what everyones thoughts are on piracy here.

me personally i pirate music, movies, games, applications everything, but like most piraters if i like what i downloaded i always buy a retail copy of it, most of the time the day after i download it.(other than my editing software i just dont got 500 dollars to drop down on some software hell i barely have enough to buy a camera)

now im not talking about things like ebaumsworld where he just takes other peoples content and puts his water mark on it and claims it as his own...
people that do that are the cancer of the internet.(and reddit memes lol)

but i was just wondering what yalls thoughts were on it, mainly because i feel, i look at from a different point of view as most of you do. if someone pirated my content i would just be excited someone else got to see what i made(mainly because im not making a dime off of it anyway)
but i do know that some people here actually do this for a living and probably have different feelings about it.

sorry if i offended someone, outting myself as a pirater and all but like i said if its a good product i do buy it. mainly because i feel if they made something good they deserve recognition and money for what they poured there heart and soul into.

Nick Soares
02-26-2013, 02:01 PM
but like most piraters if i like what i downloaded i always buy a retail copy of it, most of the time the day after i download it.

Most piraters do not do this, that is far from the truth. People pirate because its free. People save thousands of dollars, why pay for it..... Most people who say they do are liars. (You may do it, but most do not)

That said, this is a forum and all opinions are welcome so I am not directing this towards you, but I am 100% against it, it makes my skin crawl, I get a stomach knot just thinking about it. No one can really know the other end of pirating until they create a digital product themselves. That is the key here, a DIGITAL product that can be used and shared without being seen. I have had experiences where my profits got cut in half and I actually quite releasing anything digitally for a while.

IT IS THE SAME AS STEALING A CANDY BAR, A BOOK, A DVD, FROM A STORE! IT JUST PEOPLE CANNOT SEE IT!

Nick Soares
02-26-2013, 02:05 PM
In addition: Many people think, "OH if its up to be Pirated, then the company must be making MILLIONs of dollars a year, so this won't hurt then at all" This to is far from the truth, Pirating is a filmmaking ECONOMY KILLER - So if you feel like getting into the film industry, just remember your biggest enemy is not a studio, not a distributor, but pirating.....

leetvfilms
02-26-2013, 02:28 PM
I have a pirated version of 3DS Max and I'm still waiting on the day I am able to buy the software from Autodesk. There are people that pirate out there for the wrong reasons. My reason is I want to learn and pursue filmmaking and visual effects which I'm sad to say is going to cost me lots of $$$$$$ to do so just to get software. Is my reason a good reason? I think it is but there may be a few that won't view it that way. I intend on buying the software at some point but I need a job that pays more than what 3DS Max retails for, which is $3,500.

Sleazypanda
02-26-2013, 03:13 PM
"OH if its up to be Pirated, then the company must be making MILLIONs of dollars a year, so this won't hurt then at all"
if anyone thinks this, then there just stupid and natural selection will pick them off anyway. i do agree with you however that alot of people that pirate do not buy what they pirate and they just do it because it is free. but i do have to disagree with your word "Most". im willing to bet every dime that i have that most people that pirate actually do buy what there pirating.

i personally only know 3 people afk that pirate.(out of the idk 50 people i talk to on a regular basis) manily because the average person has no idea what a torrent is. and out of those 3 people we ALL buy what we like. now there is a key word there "like". out of the thousands of things ive downloaded ever since, hell napster ive probably only bought 10% of what i saw or listened to or played. but out of that 90% i can say that i never listened to the full album, never finished the movie, never played past the first level of the game. and i do agree that it cost the companys that produced it millions of dollars(depending on the flick of course).

now all that being said i do agree with you at some extent but not all the way. i feel that if your in the business u shouldnt be in for the money. u should be in it for the love of the art. im pretty sure davinci didnt give a shit if his painting made him any money, and that was different time and a totally different place but the same still applys imo, its all about the love for what you do. now as i said above my feelings could completely change the second i do(hopefully) make money off of this. but as it stands now ill personally be loading my content onto every torrent site in the world every forum and every video hosting site just incase i get that one extra person to see it.

just as a little example the last post i made i metioned the movie clerks and i actually own 2 copies of clerks a vhs copy (signed by scott mosier and kevin smith /splouge) and the 10th anniversery edition. but i dont have a vhs player(who does these days) and i cant find my dvd copy. and i really wanted to watch the movie after i mentioned it the other day. so i downloaded it last night and watched it. now i have 2 copies of this movie and i pirated it to watch it cause i didnt want to go and spend 20 dollars on another copy just to watched the movie last night. now do you consider this wrong. im a die hard fan of mr kevin smith own everything hes ever made. now i really doubt he cares that i downloaded that movie last night mainly because the man has gotten atleast 200$ out of me with movie tickets and dvd sales, merchandise from his website and i even sub his podcasts just to support him that much further.

but ill end this with an up note
atleast we can all agree that editing software cost way to much hehe

Nick Soares
02-26-2013, 03:51 PM
We might be doing a phone interview with Kevin Smith next week, hopefully he doesn't read this :0 :)

leetvfilms
02-26-2013, 03:53 PM
Thats awesome!!!

Sleazypanda
02-26-2013, 04:31 PM
i hope he does read it lol hes a huge idol of mine and he if reads a word that i write my life will feel complete

Sleazypanda
02-26-2013, 04:52 PM
u should ask kevin smith how he feels about this subject if u have some extra time.

Nick Soares
02-26-2013, 05:04 PM
Filmmaker Forum has about 4-5 questions, this will not be one of them..... I would like to hear his take on it. But its tough enough to get a phone interview in the first place, don't want to push it...

Sleazypanda
02-26-2013, 05:43 PM
i completely understand, gotta choose wisely

Troy
02-27-2013, 05:40 PM
I do not support this sort of stuff but there are times that i have downloaded things off the internet once in a while. Most of the time its music. If i like just one song and nothing off the rest of the album ill download the one song but if its i like the entire album most of the time i can find it on CD for cheap though thrift shops, online stores or friends.

When it comes to movies i have never downloaded a movie in my life. I feel that there is enough movies to be watched though Theaters, Movie channels, Friends DVD's and netflix. As nick said before if you want to be in this industry stealing from it is not going to make your chances stronger.

Programs are a hard one to deal with because not everyone can pay for those big price tags. What allot of company's do is give updates and force you to buy there newest product witch i think is 100% unfair. They should still sell there older programs for cheaper so that rookies can pick up some older software to get better and later invest for more updated programs. Luckily you can still buy older programs from people updating them self's. They could also be selling "No-Profit licences" to people for much cheaper. If you buy a "No-Profit" licence you agree to terms that you are only using the program for entertaining or training uses and not making a profit from it.

From what i heard (2 or so days ago) pirating has started to be tracked and stored by agency's. They are not pushing any laws on anyone but just keeping it stored to possibly be used later.


My final stance on this is that i believe it is wrong for people to do this but some of the company's are not perfect either.

Admin
02-27-2013, 05:51 PM
Pirating all comes down to "Self Control" - You download things illegally because no one is watching. The question is, do you have the self control to not do it, do you have the self control to see that that product should not be on your computer until you purchase it.

Here is an example:

The world "earth" has ended, you are the only person left on earth. You go into a gas station, no one is there. You are hungry, you talk a energy bar, no need to pay as there is no one on earth to tell you not to do it. <--- This is what pirating is like, "earth" is like the other site of your computer screen. It is natural to feel like the other end of your computer screen is fake, But there are people there that you hurt by pirating, you just cannot see them or hear them when you do it.

Admin
02-27-2013, 06:03 PM
Troy, just read you message. Yes, Pirating is now being tracked, and is a serious crime. Some might think, "Oh I will use one of those programs to block my IP address" as a programmer I assure you that some of these clocking sites are put in place by the FBI - Just a heads up.

They are starting with the sites, and are also following up with the downloaders... It has already been stated that the "I didn't know it was illegal" line will not be tolerated by the police when they come knocking on your door. "THE POLICE, YOU SAY!" Yup, a simple database has been put in place to send a simple notification to local authorities and they will have your name and address and the crime your IP has committed. That is the current flaw though, is proving it was you that did the crime and not someone using your computer.

http://www.digipress.us/pics/FBI-Banner.jpg

NHummel
02-28-2013, 12:21 AM
Pirating takes the money away from people who worked very hard on the product.

Sleazypanda
02-28-2013, 04:16 AM
Pirating takes the money away from people who worked very hard on the product. IMO EVERYONE who pirates should rot!!

lets keep this civil now. dont just tell me i should rot...atleast tell me why

Nick Soares
02-28-2013, 06:46 AM
Keep it clean guys, I dont wanna HAVE to close this thread because we get angry at each other.......

NHummel
02-28-2013, 03:05 PM
I believe I mentioned that in the first part. It takes money away from the people who worked very hard on the product.

Kevin
03-01-2013, 09:36 AM
Guess I'll chime in. I will admit, I've never been comfortible pirating things, I mean anything. There's more than one reason for it, too. One is that people produce a product, and sell it, for a living... and not all of them are being greedy about it. Two, is I don't TRUST pirated copies of things. I always worry they'll destroy my computer/equipment. The last part, though, is as far as software is concerned, there's no real support for the pirated software. What happens when a virus comes out but because you might not be able to update, you can't get the fix? It's not worth the risk.

I'm a proponent of open source where possible. I have, more than once, looked at the costs of LOTS of things, and wondered why the hell I'd spend that sum of money when I likley won't use half the extra's they justify the cost with. I use Word mostly because it came with my computer, otherwise I'd probobly use Open Office.

Now, granted, I don't apply this same logic to something no longer supported by the creator, or out of print books. If it isn't being printed, supported or what have you I might treat it like the orphan it's become, but that's mostly beacuse you can't get it anymore, otherwise.

And, for a last point on Piracy...

If you aren't doing it with a ship, you're doing it wrong.

NHummel
03-01-2013, 02:04 PM
Guess I'll chime in. I will admit, I've never been comfortible pirating things, I mean anything. There's more than one reason for it, too. One is that people produce a product, and sell it, for a living... and not all of them are being greedy about it. Two, is I don't TRUST pirated copies of things. I always worry they'll destroy my computer/equipment. The last part, though, is as far as software is concerned, there's no real support for the pirated software. What happens when a virus comes out but because you might not be able to update, you can't get the fix? It's not worth the risk.

I'm a proponent of open source where possible. I have, more than once, looked at the costs of LOTS of things, and wondered why the hell I'd spend that sum of money when I likley won't use half the extra's they justify the cost with. I use Word mostly because it came with my computer, otherwise I'd probobly use Open Office.

Now, granted, I don't apply this same logic to something no longer supported by the creator, or out of print books. If it isn't being printed, supported or what have you I might treat it like the orphan it's become, but that's mostly beacuse you can't get it anymore, otherwise.

And, for a last point on Piracy...

If you aren't doing it with a ship, you're doing it wrong.


This made me laugh.

Sleazypanda
03-01-2013, 02:10 PM
lulz the ship part def made me laugh.

but you are wrong about the updates part all of my adobe software updates every update they have(people have skillz-with a z- when it comes to cracking software)
but you do make some very good points sometimes it can do screwy things to your rig thats for sure.

Frank
03-01-2013, 03:23 PM
I do have photo shop I pirated, but after reading this thread I feel really bad about it...... :( Honestly, It;s from Adobe, not saying that is ok but I have NEVER downloaded a movie via these sites. I have read up on the whole tracking thing, so I dont think I will be pirating anything anytime soon

Sleazypanda
03-01-2013, 03:33 PM
lmao i feel like im advocating pirating but im really not trying to but screw it here we go. i wouldnt worry about getting tracked even a program as simple as peerblock can stop someone from tracking ur ip(not the fbi or anything like that) but say paramount is tracking ur ip peer block will stop that. now i dont use peerblock i use a real ip spoofer(not gunna tell you where to get one) but getting tracked is really nothing to worry about if u get caught well ur just not doing it right. and it is bad to pirate something if ur doing it just because "its free and i want to see this movie." but like i said above i use it for sort of a test drive, ur not gunna buy a car without driving it first..but no one looks down upon that. but i watch the first 5 mins of a movie or play the first level in a game, and im taking money away from people, but thats just not true. anyways im getting into things ive already said and thats kinda pointless.

NHummel
03-01-2013, 04:31 PM
On the tracking topic, I knew someone when I was younger that was pirating, he received a cease and desist letter in the mail. Some time later he had to pay a large fine, and ended up losing his home because he went into such deep debt. Not saying that they will get you every time, but is it worth the risk?

Sleazypanda
03-01-2013, 04:36 PM
On the tracking topic, I knew someone when I was younger that was pirating, he received a cease and desist letter in the mail. Some time later he had to pay a large fine, and ended up losing his home because he went into such deep debt. Not saying that they will get you every time, but is it worth the risk?
thats just not true. only the production company that made the movie or w/e it was he downloaded can take legal action, which means he would have had to go to court, they just cant fine you for pirating that what sopa was for and that didnt pass.

NHummel
03-01-2013, 04:42 PM
thats just not true. only the production company that made the movie or w/e it was he downloaded can take legal action, which means he would have had to go to court, they just cant fine you for pirating that what sopa was for and that didnt pass.

One, before you say it just isn't true, try asking a bit more please.

Two, it is true. I abbreviated the story. Legal action WAS taken, and he DID go to court.

Sleazypanda
03-01-2013, 04:55 PM
One, before you say it just isn't true, try asking a bit more please.

Two, it is true. I abbreviated the story. Legal action WAS taken, and he DID go to court.

ok well lets break it apart u said he was fined...that cant happen. then you said he ended up loseing his house because of this? they cant do that. the debt he was in had to be from something else not this "fine"(your words). there is only a certain amount they can take from you, i dont know the exact numbers but i can tell you its no where near the amount a house cost, the pirating may have played a part in his debt but it no way could it be enough that he couldnt pay his bills if he has a 40 hour a week job.

another note. he had to be the person uploading the movie(or w/e it was) not the person downloading, its not illegal to download the movie its illegal to upload it.
once again thats what sopa was for and it didnt pass. the internet is open source and anything can be passed from person to person. sadly even disgusting things like child porn are legal to download thats why the websites still exist. its kinda like drugs, its not illegal to be high, its illegal to posses.

edit: now they can create charges against you and take you to jail, but you will not serve time the charges will not stick(never has anyone gone to jail for downloading a movie) never

NHummel
03-01-2013, 05:12 PM
I never said the fine was solely what led to him building so much debt, but he did go to court which resulted in a fine. This contributed to large debt. He was involved in pirating movies, with others I am sure, which CAN lead to a fine. They practically shove that fact down your throat at theaters these days. I am not sure specifically how they traxked him, for all I know they staked out his house. My point was they can find you. I just know he received a C and D letter, and later had to pay a large fine.

Sleazypanda
03-01-2013, 06:18 PM
I never said the fine was solely what led to him building so much debt, but he did go to court which resulted in a fine. This contributed to large debt. He was involved in pirating movies, with others I am sure, which CAN lead to a fine. They practically shove that fact down your throat at theaters these days. I am not sure specifically how they traxked him, for all I know they staked out his house. My point was they can find you. I just know he received a C and D letter, and later had to pay a large fine.

ok well that is not what this thread is about, were not talking about the person at the theater with the camera, were talking about the guy who downloads the movie.

and they tracked him threw his ip adress/mac adress. and yes they can find you if you are stupid about it and just upload movies to the pirate bay everyday with no security.
and i did say they will fine you for uploading the video im not denying that, im denying that they will give you a fine for downloading it. which is what this thread is about.

NHummel
03-01-2013, 09:21 PM
I am pretty sure that this thread is just called thoughts on piracy. I don't see anywhere that it specifies what kind of piracy, but whatever.

Sleazypanda
03-01-2013, 09:36 PM
read the op again cause it states it pretty clearly

NHummel
03-01-2013, 09:51 PM
I see thoughts on piracy, I see that it talks about downloading, but I don't see anywhere that says this thread is specifically only about pirating via downloading, but it really doesn't matter. I said my bit about it. Done.

Kevin
03-02-2013, 05:38 AM
To be fair, any thread on a topic like this is going to spread out past the original, possibly more narrow topic. Piracy is, by nature, going to be a hot topic for Filmmakers in general, but even more for low budget folks like us. On one end, we're potentially going to be hurt more if we come up with something grand, and it gets functionally stolen, on the other we don't have good money to throw after bad for all the sweet software that some companies offer and "cheating" can be tempting (Note quotes.) It can make things terribly grey where it was black and white a few minutes before.

Sleazypanda
03-02-2013, 06:30 AM
To be fair, any thread on a topic like this is going to spread out past the original, possibly more narrow topic. Piracy is, by nature, going to be a hot topic for Filmmakers in general, but even more for low budget folks like us. On one end, we're potentially going to be hurt more if we come up with something grand, and it gets functionally stolen, on the other we don't have good money to throw after bad for all the sweet software that some companies offer and "cheating" can be tempting (Note quotes.) It can make things terribly grey where it was black and white a few minutes before.

oh yah i agree, but guy above you took it completely out of context, and then ensued to try and "scare" people out of doing it. and i dont like that if u dont want people to do it, dont pull a "religion" and try to scare people into doing the right thing, make a convincing argument and try to teach people, not scare them with stories, that i for one, dont even believe happened.

Kevin
03-02-2013, 07:33 AM
I've heard rumors, and seen news reports, on fines/settlements getting issued. I'll admit, I do think "Settlement" might be the more accurate description than "Fine" though how the RIAA got some done was questionable (And even got called fine's by the media.) Also, and this is to be fair, some EULA's, which some cracked software does still involve from what I've seen, might have sections that translate to "Fines" (Again, more like summary settlements against misuse) that could kick in. I think what NHummel was referring too was not a "religion" style attempt to scare people, but based on personal experience, view point, and things either witnessed or told to him separate. Hell, how many people might refer to getting sued and a settlement against them by the RIAA as a fine, just because that's how it FEELS to them?

Basically, I see both your points... and could easily see how the break down is terminology instead of any meaningful break down in facts (Settlement or Fine, it's still money out of your pocket for Piracy... and RIAA has pulled the "Sue when you know the other person won't find out till to late" trick).

Basically... I guess I'm saying that I'm fine with arguing a touchy subject as long as we all remember we have different takes and experiences.

Paul77
03-02-2013, 01:44 PM
Not sure how this topic passed me up, but I have never pirated. Mainly because I was taught that it is illegal, so same reason I wouldn't steal money I do not pirate stuff. Not only that, but its just flat out scary......