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M5Boss
02-01-2012, 09:51 PM
Have a completed feature length film for sale?

Let me know the rights still available..

rossettichip
02-02-2012, 07:51 AM
I have a full length Christian/Faith Based Feature entitled "Fathers" that is still available. We have a deal on the table for distribution, but we have not signed just yet. Currently all rights are available in the USA, as well as internationally. Here is a link to the trailer for the film.

Fathers Trailer 3 Short Compressed - YouTube (http://youtu.be/Njc9q9iT2UE)

Let me know if you would like more info.

M5Boss
02-02-2012, 02:11 PM
I'd like to see more - i'll pm you my address for a screener

IndieFilmmaker
02-16-2012, 04:20 PM
I have a 74 minute film that I completed back in September.
Here's the trailer.
Through The Same Lens - (Official Trailer) - YouTube (http://youtu.be/QbCjz77BGuk)

Dinozo
02-16-2012, 05:54 PM
Dark Games movie trailer - YouTube

Questions?
contact
Charles Hage
714-231-9731

James
02-16-2012, 06:52 PM
If the other investor will pass, Im interested to take a look at what you want for internet rights

Dinozo
02-16-2012, 07:42 PM
James, I've been speaking with the director of Dark Games about marketing the film online and placing ads on thousands of various sites, including Booboo Stewart fansites, Twilight fanpages, Facebook pages and other indie film related sites.

For some unknown reason, he's been very reluctant to this idea. I've done the research and know who, how and where to market this film directly. I've google searched Dark Games and there are literally over 900 sites that promote this film, the actors and the trailer (youtube). There is much money to be made with this film, but I can barely get Charles on the phone to discuss this marketing strategy. I'm very confused.

The film is Twilight star's Booboo Stewart's first starring role and actor Jeff Conaway's last on screen performance before death. There has been much online publicity about the film considering that no one has actually seen it.

What are your plans?

M5Boss
02-16-2012, 08:45 PM
Dinozo, what rights are still available?

Dinozo
02-16-2012, 09:43 PM
Spear Films and Charles Hage own the rights to the film and no distribution of any kind has been obtained.

M5Boss
02-16-2012, 10:06 PM
Are you a friend or sales agent, what is your role - just so im clear?

Nick Soares
02-16-2012, 11:46 PM
I would like to know your role as well,

[at] Chris, Ill jump in with you if its for the right price/

Nick Soares

Dinozo
02-17-2012, 07:04 AM
My role is that I wrote the script, helped with casting and recommended Booboo for the lead. I helped promote Spear Films when they first got started in 04'. The director, Charles Hage, started the company with co-producer Ramon Sanchez. They are based out of Fullerton, CA. Just a couple of guys with some serious equipment and a passion to make it. They hired me off of craigslist and penned the script "The Utah Murder Project", helped promote it as "a true story" as this later got the attention of Amy Smart, Nicole Travolta, Gary Busey, Dee Wallace, Oz Perkins, Jeff Conaway, Blake Lively, just to name a few.

I helped get their name out and co-cast the project with Mr. Hage and Sanchez. Unfortunately, the funding fell through and they decided to do a film with half the budget. This was Dark Games. Basically, I'm keeping an ear out for possible distributors. As far as financial gain, I'm supposed to get something on the back end if and when this thing gets picked up. But it's been difficult getting him on the phone as of late.

M5Boss
02-17-2012, 08:05 AM
[at] nick, sounds good

[at] Dinozo, How easy would it be for you to mail a screener to me? I'd like to watch this before my next investor meeting on the 25th of this month

Thanks..

Dinozo
02-17-2012, 08:07 AM
From the amount he's spent on the film out of pocket I would think he would take no less than 700,000. But there is much interest in the film because of Booboo Stewarts involvement and his connection to Twilight. I think if he self promoted he'd make that much back in six months time just by targeting his fan base

Dinozo
02-17-2012, 08:10 AM
Call 714-231-9731 to request a screener from Charles Hage.

Dinozo
02-17-2012, 01:19 PM
Dark Games featured film introducing Boo Boo Stewart (http://www.darkgamesmovie.com) to request screener. He's put up a new site.

Good luck,

Eric D.

Nick Soares
02-17-2012, 03:11 PM
Call 714-231-9731 to request a screener from Charles Hage.

I called, left a message, no reply

Dinozo
02-17-2012, 04:18 PM
I called, left a message, no reply

That makes two of us. I've left him a few texts today, but nothing back. I just remembered that you can request screeners on the darkgamesmovie.com website. And you can throw him an email at charles[at]spearproductions.com.

If you don't hear back from him, I don't know what to tell you. I tried.

Good luck,
Eric D.

Ralph
02-17-2012, 05:57 PM
Have a completed feature length film for sale?

Let me know the rights still available..

Please see my posting in "Writing," page 3.
I have five disparate screenplays for sale/option there.
The works are high concept, and sound, the result of ten years of practice. I am flexible about pay, favoring points on the back end. I would rather see a great product onscreen then see a producer hamstrung by my demands. My screenplays are, I have the confidence to say, commercially viable.
I would be delighted to send you a synopsis or a complete screenplay should your curiosity be piqued by any of them.

Yolli
02-17-2012, 08:10 PM
i just realized there are multiple pages on some sectins. Ralph, i might be looking for a script soon my friend

M5Boss
02-17-2012, 09:07 PM
Please see my posting in "Writing," page 3.
I have five disparate screenplays for sale/option there.
The works are high concept, and sound, the result of ten years of practice. I am flexible about pay, favoring points on the back end. I would rather see a great product onscreen then see a producer hamstrung by my demands. My screenplays are, I have the confidence to say, commercially viable.
I would be delighted to send you a synopsis or a complete screenplay should your curiosity be piqued by any of them.

ok, i will look

EuropeanDistributor
02-18-2012, 12:33 AM
Dinozo,

I'm just curious, do you happen to know how much the director invested in the movie?
Did he pay for the whole thing out of pocket?

When was it filmed?

With a name like Danny Trejo he should have no problem selling it to a bunch of different territories world wide.

$700k is extremely unlikely, probably much much less.

Danny Trejo is still a nice name, but Martin Kove or Jeff Conaway don't have much name power at all.

If I was the director I would approach some sales agents, there are many out there who would love to represent a movie like this.

It's only going to decrease in value if you let it sit.

Danny Trejo's name power will fade, and even if that Stewart kid gets more famous it's not gonna do this movie any good since he's so young in it, people will know it's an older movie.

The movie looks really nice and interesting. You should definitely try to get a sales agent to sell it.
It will do ok, but nowhere near anything like $700k.

Nick Soares
02-18-2012, 12:49 AM
Dinozo,

I'm just curious, do you happen to know how much the director invested in the movie?
Did he pay for the whole thing out of pocket?

When was it filmed?

With a name like Danny Trejo he should have no problem selling it to a bunch of different territories world wide.

$700k is extremely unlikely, probably much much less.

Danny Trejo is still a nice name, but Martin Kove or Jeff Conaway don't have much name power at all.

If I was the director I would approach some sales agents, there are many out there who would love to represent a movie like this.

It's only going to decrease in value if you let it sit.

Danny Trejo's name power will fade, and even if that Stewart kid gets more famous it's not gonna do this movie any good since he's so young in it, people will know it's an older movie.

The movie looks really nice and interesting. You should definitely try to get a sales agent to sell it.
It will do ok, but nowhere near anything like $700k.

Interesting how you know it wouldn't make more then 700K without seeing a screener, I would say that a near impossible judgement to make even without knowing there marketing capabilities. Now im not trying to build it up at all, it could make sales of 50K or less, I am only discussing this as a topic.

EuropeanDistributor
02-18-2012, 01:57 AM
Interesting how you know it wouldn't make more then 700K without seeing a screener, I would say that a near impossible judgement to make even without knowing there marketing capabilities. Now im not trying to build it up at all, it could make sales of 50K or less, I am only discussing this as a topic.

I am just basing this from what I know about the product.

Sure there is a possibility that it will sell for $700k and over, for example if it is exceptionally good and wins an award at sundance or another film festival of such stature.
But things like that are exceptions to the rule.

In today's market place, an indie thriller with the names that this movie has, $700k is extremely unlikely.

I would love to be wrong though!

Nick Soares
02-18-2012, 02:17 AM
Man, all this talk, I REALLY want to see it now!

Dinozo
02-19-2012, 04:28 PM
Fellas, you guys obviously know what you're talking about and have some serious experience at distribution. I guess to understand what I've posted, you'd have to understand the "big ideas" this director has for the film. We never really did see eye to eye on anything regarding this movie and nothing's really changed since it was filmed.

Without even asking, I know he's not interested in selling to multiple markets and different distributors. (Don't ask me why). I honestly think he feels that this will get picked up by a Lions Gate or Mandalay Indie or a mini-major. Basically, he isn't interested in self-distributing (which is what I would do if I owned this property - sell direct to Booboo fanclub), and he isn't interested in the smaller companies or distributors he's never heard of.

I'm only a writer and don't know a whole helluva lot about distribution and selling to multiple markets and such, but I've done some extensive research into Netflix and how many units they buy at a time and how little money is involved in that market. Again, this is just what I've read online. Maybe indies do make money with Netflix, but the majority is saying otherwise.

What's your experience with VOD, Netflix and online sales? I do know that Anchor Bay, Mandalay and Lions Gate have picked up $10,000 budget HD flicks like "Motor Home Massacre" for $300,000. I think on the off chance he were to sell to an Anchor Bay or Lions Gate, he wouldn't get anything more than $300,000 for Dark Games. If that.

I'm realistic enough to understand that he'll never sell this project to a single distributor for more than $300,000 (if he's lucky) and I've explained this to him, but he's insistent that it will sell for much more. I'm not sure how many investors were involved, but I do know the budget exceeded $500. I told him about you guys and I can't even get a phone call back. This is just his outlook on this film and I understand that it's not very realistic or very smart at this point, since it's going on four years since principal photography wrapped. I've only seen a rough cut of it back in 08' and liked what I saw, but haven't seen the final product.

But thank you for your helpful words. I guess if you still wanna see a screener, go to his website or give another call.

Eric D.

Dinozo
02-19-2012, 04:40 PM
It was shot in late 07' early 08'.

The only publicity its gotten is Booboo plugged it in a few interviews and NY Post mentioned it after Conaway passed away. And that's that.

From what Ive seen with my own eyes, its the Booboo fans online that have been asking about the film and where they can purchase.

Twelve and thirteen year old girls mostly. The Youtube message boards blew up after the trailer was posted. The ladies love this kid!

I would personally target as many Booboo fansites, Twilight fansites, Danny Trejo pages, and indie horror sites as I could and post a link to his website.

It's probably the fastest way of seeing the first bit of profit on this film. I think it's better than twittling your thumbs or sitting on your hands hoping for a miracle. It just seems like common sense at this point.

Nick Soares
02-19-2012, 06:30 PM
Fellas, you guys obviously know what you're talking about and have some serious experience at distribution. I guess to understand what I've posted, you'd have to understand the "big ideas" this director has for the film. We never really did see eye to eye on anything regarding this movie and nothing's really changed since it was filmed.

Without even asking, I know he's not interested in selling to multiple markets and different distributors. (Don't ask me why). I honestly think he feels that this will get picked up by a Lions Gate or Mandalay Indie or a mini-major. Basically, he isn't interested in self-distributing (which is what I would do if I owned this property - sell direct to Booboo fanclub), and he isn't interested in the smaller companies or distributors he's never heard of.

I'm only a writer and don't know a whole helluva lot about distribution and selling to multiple markets and such, but I've done some extensive research into Netflix and how many units they buy at a time and how little money is involved in that market. Again, this is just what I've read online. Maybe indies do make money with Netflix, but the majority is saying otherwise.

What's your experience with VOD, Netflix and online sales? I do know that Anchor Bay, Mandalay and Lions Gate have picked up $10,000 budget HD flicks like "Motor Home Massacre" for $300,000. I think on the off chance he were to sell to an Anchor Bay or Lions Gate, he wouldn't get anything more than $300,000 for Dark Games. If that.

I'm realistic enough to understand that he'll never sell this project to a single distributor for more than $300,000 (if he's lucky) and I've explained this to him, but he's insistent that it will sell for much more. I'm not sure how many investors were involved, but I do know the budget exceeded $500. I told him about you guys and I can't even get a phone call back. This is just his outlook on this film and I understand that it's not very realistic or very smart at this point, since it's going on four years since principal photography wrapped. I've only seen a rough cut of it back in 08' and liked what I saw, but haven't seen the final product.

But thank you for your helpful words. I guess if you still wanna see a screener, go to his website or give another call.

Eric D.

Dinozo,

Well joining this forum was a good call on your part, because soon you will know more then you "director"

#1 - Distribution companies mainly do % rights, not purchase outright, though it does happen.

#2 - Lions Gate just purchased the twilight franchise for 400 and some million dollars, and I doubt they will be purchasing films outright for a while. (though, these are only my thoughts.)

#3- Netflix has been giving me about 9 hundred to 2K licensing fee for my films each year.

Netflix is definitely not a big profit game, and if filmmakers goal is only to get on netflix then they wont make much, but what it does do if its good is it builds up "hype" and can increase your sales of you have your film on iTunes, and other networks.

Hope this helps

Nick Soares

Dinozo
02-19-2012, 06:41 PM
Dinozo,

Well joining this forum was a good call on your part, because soon you will know more then you "director"

#1 - Distribution companies mainly do % rights, not purchase outright, though it does happen.

#2 - Lions Gate just purchased the twilight franchise for 400 and some million dollars, and I doubt they will be purchasing films outright for a while. (though, these are only my thoughts.)

#3- Netflix has been giving me about 9 hundred to 2K licensing fee for my films each year.

Netflix is definitely not a big profit game, and if filmmakers goal is only to get on netflix then they wont make much, but what it does do if its good is it builds up "hype" and can increase your sales of you have your film on iTunes, and other networks.

Hope this helps

Nick Soares

Yes! It does help! I wish you could communicate some of this to Charles, but he seems set in his ways. Or maybe you got a chance to speak with him about the film. I don't know. I still think you should stay on him and let him know about some options that he might not be considering.

You could always throw him a friendly email at charles[at]spearproductions.com if he's not answering his phone. I'm sure he would listen if he knew a little more about his options.

Nick Soares
02-19-2012, 06:51 PM
I have already called him and left a message, thats more personal then an email :) so if he wants he will call me back, if not, he wont, and I wish him the best of luck.

Dinozo
02-19-2012, 07:35 PM
I have already called him and left a message, thats more personal then an email :) so if he wants he will call me back, if not, he wont, and I wish him the best of luck.

It's what I expected. Sorry.

EuropeanDistributor
02-19-2012, 07:36 PM
Fellas, you guys obviously know what you're talking about and have some serious experience at distribution. I guess to understand what I've posted, you'd have to understand the "big ideas" this director has for the film. We never really did see eye to eye on anything regarding this movie and nothing's really changed since it was filmed.

Without even asking, I know he's not interested in selling to multiple markets and different distributors. (Don't ask me why). I honestly think he feels that this will get picked up by a Lions Gate or Mandalay Indie or a mini-major. Basically, he isn't interested in self-distributing (which is what I would do if I owned this property - sell direct to Booboo fanclub), and he isn't interested in the smaller companies or distributors he's never heard of.

I'm only a writer and don't know a whole helluva lot about distribution and selling to multiple markets and such, but I've done some extensive research into Netflix and how many units they buy at a time and how little money is involved in that market. Again, this is just what I've read online. Maybe indies do make money with Netflix, but the majority is saying otherwise.

What's your experience with VOD, Netflix and online sales? I do know that Anchor Bay, Mandalay and Lions Gate have picked up $10,000 budget HD flicks like "Motor Home Massacre" for $300,000. I think on the off chance he were to sell to an Anchor Bay or Lions Gate, he wouldn't get anything more than $300,000 for Dark Games. If that.

I'm realistic enough to understand that he'll never sell this project to a single distributor for more than $300,000 (if he's lucky) and I've explained this to him, but he's insistent that it will sell for much more. I'm not sure how many investors were involved, but I do know the budget exceeded $500. I told him about you guys and I can't even get a phone call back. This is just his outlook on this film and I understand that it's not very realistic or very smart at this point, since it's going on four years since principal photography wrapped. I've only seen a rough cut of it back in 08' and liked what I saw, but haven't seen the final product.

But thank you for your helpful words. I guess if you still wanna see a screener, go to his website or give another call.

Eric D.

I would say that the director needs to study how the business works, because he seems to have some major misconceptions.

A good independent filmmaker has to know as much about the distribution side of the business as they do about filmmaking.
Passion projects aside, films are always done for distribution.

I have seen this before, filmmakers spending fortunes on their projects they think they are going to sell for millions once it's finished, when in reality they don't have any idea about what state the market is in.

Most movies, even the big ones are distributed worldwide by smaller local distributors whose names I guarantee most have never heard of.

There are only a few bigger studios and distributors who have their own local companies in the bigger markets, like Sony Pictures, 20th Century Fox, Universal, they have their own local distribution companies set up in the bigger markets in europe.
So if let's say Sony buys your picture they will distribute it in these select territories, the rest you can try to sell to the other local buyers.

In very extremely rare cases a distributor might buy a film's worldwide rights for a lump sum, but even in that case it wouldn't just magically get released in every country, that distributor would have to try and sell it to different buyers worldwide.

I still think that the absolute best thing to do with this movie, is send screeners to a bunch of sales agents that allready have sold and represented movies like this before, and see what they say.

They should be able to tell you what numbers they expect to see from certain territories.
That does not however mean that they would be able to sell it to that many territories, but just what are the most optimistical numbers you might see.

Remember though, sales agents usually only give you what they consider the "asking price" meaning that that is the price they would be asking for a territory, in most cases the final number is much lower.

Self distribution is fine for smaller films, but it is very time consuming.

Considering the time it takes to finish the movie, print the dvd, actually market the film, how much can you realistically sell it?

How many Booboo Stewart fans are ready to fork out $10-$20 for a dvd, is it worth the hassle and the money?

The sales agent should be able to sell it to a domestic distributor who would take care all of that.
They would sell it on dvd, VOD, PPV, netflix.
And if they are a legitimate company and you sign a deal where you will take a part of the profits, if it sells well you will see royalties down the line. But that is a big if.
Realistically, all you're going to see is the guarantee they pay you when signing the agreement.

Nowadays, many filmmakers have been able to negotiate the right for themselves to still be able to sell the movie themselves, even after signing a dsitribution deal. If you can get that done, then you would be able to target the fan clubs like you said.

$300k for domestic is extremely unrealistic.

I am currently working on a $1M+ movie with three very sizeable names, all of them bigger Than Danny Trejo, and the quotes I've gotten for US are way under $300k.

Like I said in an earlier post, the prices paid for movies are at their lowest.

You need big names, multiple of them, and even then you will have to make the movie for as cheap as possible and you would have to get part of the budget back through tax incentives.

That's why it's important to make movies distribution in mind.
Any distributor or sales agent would have been able to tell the director beforehand, that for a $500k+ movie he hopes to see profit for he would need bigger names than trejo, and at least 3-4 of them, even then it's risky.

But I encourage you to approach some sales agents and ask for their opinion. Give those numbers to the director, maybe then he will realize what is the reality.

Nick Soares
02-19-2012, 07:43 PM
Maybe this is why its been on the shelf for so long, his expectations were to big, but man sometimes if you can just complete it, then get it distributed it might just draw in lots of fans, it might be good, then thats when you start making the money.

I have had a distribution company offer 10 times less then what we ended up getting to sale for, just a thought.

Dinozo
02-19-2012, 08:25 PM
I would say that the director needs to study how the business works, because he seems to have some major misconceptions.

A good independent filmmaker has to know as much about the distribution side of the business as they do about filmmaking.
Passion projects aside, films are always done for distribution.

I have seen this before, filmmakers spending fortunes on their projects they think they are going to sell for millions once it's finished, when in reality they don't have any idea about what state the market is in.

Most movies, even the big ones are distributed worldwide by smaller local distributors whose names I guarantee most have never heard of.

There are only a few bigger studios and distributors who have their own local companies in the bigger markets, like Sony Pictures, 20th Century Fox, Universal, they have their own local distribution companies set up in the bigger markets in europe.
So if let's say Sony buys your picture they will distribute it in these select territories, the rest you can try to sell to the other local buyers.

In very extremely rare cases a distributor might buy a film's worldwide rights for a lump sum, but even in that case it wouldn't just magically get released in every country, that distributor would have to try and sell it to different buyers worldwide.

I still think that the absolute best thing to do with this movie, is send screeners to a bunch of sales agents that allready have sold and represented movies like this before, and see what they say.

They should be able to tell you what numbers they expect to see from certain territories.
That does not however mean that they would be able to sell it to that many territories, but just what are the most optimistical numbers you might see.

Remember though, sales agents usually only give you what they consider the "asking price" meaning that that is the price they would be asking for a territory, in most cases the final number is much lower.

Self distribution is fine for smaller films, but it is very time consuming.

Considering the time it takes to finish the movie, print the dvd, actually market the film, how much can you realistically sell it?

How many Booboo Stewart fans are ready to fork out $10-$20 for a dvd, is it worth the hassle and the money?

The sales agent should be able to sell it to a domestic distributor who would take care all of that.
They would sell it on dvd, VOD, PPV, netflix.
And if they are a legitimate company and you sign a deal where you will take a part of the profits, if it sells well you will see royalties down the line. But that is a big if.
Realistically, all you're going to see is the guarantee they pay you when signing the agreement.

Nowadays, many filmmakers have been able to negotiate the right for themselves to still be able to sell the movie themselves, even after signing a dsitribution deal. If you can get that done, then you would be able to target the fan clubs like you said.

$300k for domestic is extremely unrealistic.

I am currently working on a $1M+ movie with three very sizeable names, all of them bigger Than Danny Trejo, and the quotes I've gotten for US are way under $300k.

Like I said in an earlier post, the prices paid for movies are at their lowest.

You need big names, multiple of them, and even then you will have to make the movie for as cheap as possible and you would have to get part of the budget back through tax incentives.

That's why it's important to make movies distribution in mind.
Any distributor or sales agent would have been able to tell the director beforehand, that for a $500k+ movie he hopes to see profit for he would need bigger names than trejo, and at least 3-4 of them, even then it's risky.

But I encourage you to approach some sales agents and ask for their opinion. Give those numbers to the director, maybe then he will realize what is the reality.

I think I'll email him your notes, see what he has to say, or if he says anything at all. I really don't know why I care anymore. I guess because I've been involved with this company for so long that I'd like to see something good come of the film. But, in all honesty, I don't believe that this day will come.